tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post6055268964692923750..comments2023-10-31T16:37:29.340+00:00Comments on A Salted: A really long blog post about fiction, autobiography, cultural tourism and such likeAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00597852661913928616noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-2861033673016564642010-07-16T18:23:56.384+01:002010-07-16T18:23:56.384+01:00Peacocks and front lawns...does get you sniggering...Peacocks and front lawns...does get you sniggering at that.<br /><br />And, yes, I agree--I'm looking for some level of truth in fiction. A reality that resonates, an understanding that deepens mine, or just a whopping good story that never slips me a wrong note to throw me out.<br /><br />But then we have James Frey--would he have been so crucified if he'd published first off as fiction? Or would he have been ignored as just another writer, or told he couldn't possibly write about drug use like that since he wasn't a druggie like that? Why isn't he lionized for being such a fabulous imaginative writer? It is that we want to be told up front that these are lies?<br /><br />Or maybe fiction just is more honest that real life.<br /><br />Good post--very thought provoking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-88040527699772927382010-03-29T11:59:45.053+01:002010-03-29T11:59:45.053+01:00Trying writing plays, folks - and see if your blac...Trying writing plays, folks - and see if your black actors playing your black characters turn round and put you right!<br /><br />Sorry to come so late to this discussion. It's a serious point I'm making there. One great thing about the collaborative nature of plays is that you are prevented from making such cultural mistakes. Writing prose fiction is a scary thing to do, because really, you're on your own, and the most important thing, as so many people have said here, is that we don't spoil the emotional truth of what we're writing by making such mistakes as misrepresenting other people's emotional truth. Really, personally I do find it scary, and the older I get and the more I understand about the world the scareder I am, because I really do want to embrace the complex truths and situations of this world. And sometimes 'research' just doesn't hack it - it's the emotional experience of others you need to know.Elizabeth Baineshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193751871434773972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-13988974651279102282010-03-28T08:54:01.939+01:002010-03-28T08:54:01.939+01:00I'm delighted to see that there are some serio...I'm delighted to see that there are some serious attempts to help writers with this sticky bit of craft, if they are drawn to try.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-87086930394662523932010-03-23T14:24:53.231+00:002010-03-23T14:24:53.231+00:00Petina, thank you so much for your comment. And ye...Petina, thank you so much for your comment. And yes, how timely. The course you are running sounds extremely interesting.<br /><br />I think I agree with everything you say!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00597852661913928616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-47125285658699375452010-03-23T05:16:17.995+00:002010-03-23T05:16:17.995+00:00Sarah ... sorry this is going to be long:)
Thank ...Sarah ... sorry this is going to be long:)<br /><br />Thank you so much for this wonderful blog post. It could not have come at a better time. At the end of this week, I am teaching a Faber Academy course, with Christopher Hope, on the subject: Writing Other Lives. We will discuss writing across cultures, what works and what does not work, how to write about places without lapsing into tedious exoticism, how to write about people foreign to you in a way that makes them real and not ciphers or stereotyped cliches. If it goes well, I might take to the course to London next year.<br /><br />I am a Zimbabwean writer ... I read everything and love to read widely. I do not necessarily look for myself in what I read, the pleasure of reading comes from experiencing the lives of others. Besides, in the lives of others, who are different from me, I often recognise something that illuminates my own life.<br /><br />This experience is spoilt if the plot is unbelievable, the writing shoddy, and if, and this is the subject of this post, the characters or setting are off in any way. I read two stories, purportedly about Zimbabweans written by two white women, one of whom, Vanessa Gebbie, is a participant in this discussion. To me, the characters were Zimbabwean only because the writers said so, even their names were wrong, a sort of pidgin Shona in a country with no pidgin! I was not offended by the stories, but I was amused ... amused in the way I am when I read Dan Brown's plastic characters. My reaction was not about "cultural" authenticity, it was simply a reaction to two pieces of writing that seemed to want the exotic setting without going for any kind of truth in the characters. Vanessa, I am sure, will not mind me saying this as she has alluded to her own mistakes. Happily for these two writers, there was no real problem because the stories were, I am sure, not intended to be read by Zimbabweans:)<br /><br />In contrast, there is James Kilgore, a white American who has written one of the best novels about Zimbabwe ever published. He lived there but his perspective is very much that of an outsider ... his book is damned good because he did not sentimentalise his subject, or assume all Zimbabweans are one thing or the other, and he made the staggeringly astonishing discovery that black people are just people, and pretty messed up people too, like everyone else, and not suffering voiceless victims or repositaries of ancient wisdoms:) <br /><br />So it is not to say that whites can't write about blacks at all. I am astonished that what is actually a critical discussion about believability and "truth" has been turned into a discussion about censorship and authenticity. <br /><br />Of course a white writer can write about whatever s/he likes. If what is written is not particularly good, however, for any reason, brown people, yellow people, black people, other white people and people of all shades in between have every right to say, ummm, white person, your story sucks in a million different ways, and one of those ways includes, to quote Khuzali, the freaking flamming flying white peacocks:)<br /><br />On a more serious note: oerhaps it comes down to this: maybe not everyone is a good enough writer to write about everything under the sun? This is not to say that writers should not try ... but there are not many Michela Wrongs, and John Peels and EM Forsters and Lloyd Jones among us. It takes huge imaginative gifts and most importantly, sensitivity and compassion, to enter into other minds, let alone minds of other races and cultures. Maybe not everyone is equally endowed?Petina Gappahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06833022790649452950noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-52834481066893643622010-03-20T13:50:03.869+00:002010-03-20T13:50:03.869+00:00Coming late into this.
I think I enter my own sto...Coming late into this.<br /><br />I think I enter my own stories in some shape or form. Which is sometimes odd because I sometimes write about 'women only' in a story, or i write about a place I have never been to or ever seen, or ever consciously thought about until the point of writing.<br /><br />I don't write about big political issues or even big social issues, not usually, so perhaps this cultural tourism anxiety thing applies less to what I write. But the injunction to write about what you know and to write about what is only within your sphere of understanding and knowledge, seems counter-intuitive to what many writers write.<br /><br />Writing can be as much an exploration for the writer as it is for the reader. Neither necessarily go to fiction for truth. I wrote a story recently that has as its backdrop the Aberfan disaster in Wales. I read a little bit about it. I had some 'memory' of reading about it in newspapers and of the times. I wrote my story about a woman who had lost her son in the disaster. I entered the story into a competition where the judge said some very nice things about the story's sensitivity and it getting things right about life in a Welsh town in the 1960's etc etc. I have not been to Wales since I was about 7 and then only for a two week holiday. I am guilty here of that cultural tourism thing. I wrote the story in response to a black and white photograph I had seen of the aftermath of Abefan. I have taken what i wanted from the event and from the photograph and made a story out of it. I may have got something wrong in my telling of the story. But as to it being my story to tell or not... I have told it and it is a credible and good story. Its truth is in the feeling and the characters. Surely that is a truth that we expect from fiction more than historical or cultural truths.<br /><br />As for some stories not being mine to tell... if I am a storyteller, then that's what I should do... even if that means not getting it 100% right. A storyteller is not always about telling some social or political truth, he/she is sometimes just about telling a story. <br /><br />If I am reading a novel about a muslim village and I find it intrigues or fascinates me, I will then as a reader go and investigate the subject, not take as fact what I have found in fiction. That just speaks sense. <br /><br />As for being offended. I am from Scotland and we are known by the english as tight with money. And beligerant and pugnacious. I am none of these, I think (maybe beligerant?) but I am not offended by this stereotype. There are more important things to be worked up about than this. If I found examples of this stereotype in literature, I would not necessarily see it as a generalisation of all scots and be incensed by that, nor would I take it as a truth and believe it to be true of all scots... that would be absurd.<br /><br />I think whenever anyone lays down rules for what can and cannot, or should or should not, be done, then I (beligerantly) set my jaw against the rules. This is even more the case in writing than in most things I think about (there i go being beligerant again!).<br /><br />And getting it wrong in fiction is surely something that is allowed.<br /><br />Good discussion. But at the end of the day we should not expect that what will emerge from this will be right rules or right codes of conduct for writers; there are rarely such things as these... it is in the nature of art and literature for there to be few rules and what rules there are for these to be frequently challenged and overturned.Douglas Brutonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12625886640338360592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-61349536881361084152010-03-17T13:32:29.619+00:002010-03-17T13:32:29.619+00:00Sorry, the link didnt copy correctly:
http://www....Sorry, the link didnt copy correctly:<br /><br />http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Writing+while+white+...+An+unprecedented+number+of+black+characters...-a0118954913Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-39229438070027219582010-03-17T13:31:09.093+00:002010-03-17T13:31:09.093+00:00Respect is an important issue, and we all, surely,...Respect is an important issue, and we all, surely, treat what we do as writers with respect. Even though we differ! <br /><br />Respect can include ‘inclusion’.<br /><br />There is a very interesting article here, from the African American standpoint, in case anyone is interested, about white writers creating black characters. <br /><br />http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Writing+while+white+...+An+unprecedented+number+of+black+characters...-a0118954913<br /><br />The article concludes like this:<br /><br />"Few white writers can create black characters that strike black readers as vividly valued. Even more serious literary lights like Tom Wolfe often misses the mark more often than not.(…)<br />The questions are do we as African Americans stomp on these writers for exploiting black characters and perpetuating negative stereotypes? Or do we applaud their efforts for at least trying to include people of colour?<br />One African American, Bebe Moore Campbell hesitates to applaud, but she says, "It is a step forward when they try."Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-57754018710050265092010-03-17T12:01:36.673+00:002010-03-17T12:01:36.673+00:00Fascinating discussion, thank you all.
I must ad...Fascinating discussion, thank you all. <br /><br />I must admit when it comes to the fake misery memoirs, why they were not simply published as fiction. I suspect that for some reason the craze for "reality" has gone too far, as if everything we see on TV and read in autobiography, or even just consider in our memories isn't all somehow shaped and edited. <br /><br />For me the point of reading as well as writing is entering into someone else's experience. And even if I stick to my own life, it's not as if I am speaking for every woman of my age and geographical location and culture is it? <br /><br />And what about historical fiction - who has the right to attempt that? Can we really understand what it was like to live in Tudor times when you might be burned at the stake for your religious beliefs. I enjoyed Wolf Hall - and can understand why it took five years of research. Perhaps to do justice to anoyther culture it would take the same. <br /><br />The same issues come up in other arts too - should British textile artists embroider Indian style fabrics with shisha mirrors, can a painter use Australian aboriginal imagery, or a musician be allowed to incorporate another cultural style? <br /><br />I'm not sure why, but I felt perfectly comfortable with the Clare Wigfall story - and the Wicker Man, for that matter - but would feel somewhat more uneasy about a story set in fictional, imagined African or Asian location... Is it something to do with a power issue - a lingering effect of imperialism and colonialism...that the West has already had too much power to define how other cultures are perceived? <br /><br />I also personally feel some trepidation about going too far from my own experience, but it's also part of the fun of writing.Annnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-61717389003637132402010-03-17T11:20:46.576+00:002010-03-17T11:20:46.576+00:00The thing is that I can't see any problem with...The thing is that I can't see any problem with reflecting the society you live in. I think it's about respect though. Is your character in danger of being a stereotype? Sure, he may well be based on someone (or an amalgamation of someone's) but as writers, good writers, we always seek to have fully rounded non-cliched characters. In real life we can come across people who are stereotypes (the fat boozy cabbie, the tart with a heart) but generally we steer clear from writing them as such because we need to create less generic characters.<br />Nobody is talking about only writing characters just like ourselves, that would be ridiculous.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00597852661913928616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-85013952947462202682010-03-16T12:16:12.046+00:002010-03-16T12:16:12.046+00:00Oh blimey, I am so late to the party every one is ...Oh blimey, I am so late to the party every one is pissed. At the risk of starting a discussion when everyone else is going to bed:<br /><br />Where's space in this discussion for multicultural society to be depicted? Why is this discussion running for pages without acknowledging that racial, cultural, religious and geographic barriers are constantly in flux, constantly merging and realigning. <br /><br />A lot of my stories have Asian or African characters because I don't live in or imagine/recreate in fiction a world in which there are tidy cultural demarcation lines. White people marry back people and Indians live in Africa and people who learned english by ear not at some language school dare to speak it their way and get understood. <br /><br />I read Kuzhali's blog extract in Sara's blog and blushed. A story I'm writing right now has Muslim pidgin English in it. Does the fact I worked for ten years in a cafe with illegal immigrants mean I have done my research and am allowed to portray the syntax as I heard it? Or am I just making fun of mad Muslims who speak like they have brain injuries? I blushed, I guess, because at root I must be aware that there is some strong feeling out there that as a UK writer born and bred I'm ill equipped to cover other cultures fairly. And perhaps I see some truth in that but sI don't submit to it without questioning it. <br /><br />So then I wonder why I don't want to bow out and leave Muslim culture or African illegal immigrants to the experts? Is this cultural imperialism? Have I nothing of interest to say about my own culture. Is it hubris or taboo to admit I assume as part of my culture, the cultures that mine assimilates with?<br /><br />I loathe stories where exoticism replaces insight. No need for in-depth characterisation, guys, he's wearing a salwar-kameez! But I'm equally reluctant to relinquish my right to write what interests me in case it's beyond my little white ken. And if there's a theme that compels me to keep writing it's this: that there are no demarcation lines in life. People make them and try to guard them and we all trundle along and step over them and blur them and shift them. <br /><br />I don't write about illegal immigrants because hey - that's so much more interesting than my little white life. I write about them, when I do, because they are part of the life I know. People interact. <br /><br />Blaft I'm very interested in your comment about fictitious countries. (Guilty.) In their defense, I'd argue that we naturally amalgamate when writing. We blend incidents or reactions we've experienced with thematic or dramatic constructs. To set a piece in Sierra Leone runs the risk of saying: Sierra Leone is Like This when maybe the writer is not writing about Sierra Leone per se but about the effects on one man of surviving imprisonment during civil war. Creating a fictional land which represents a real land has existed for as long as fiction itself has existed. I don't think in itself it's unsympathetic to a fair depiction of a given society.<br /><br />What a discussion.Susannah Rickardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14533371458667245083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-40627270092664513262010-03-16T10:01:19.754+00:002010-03-16T10:01:19.754+00:00Um, you're hardly an oik, V! By the way, it is...Um, you're hardly an oik, V! By the way, it is lovely to be debating with you again - these are the discussions I miss from the heyday of FW.Emmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-87475776527158413852010-03-16T09:34:12.586+00:002010-03-16T09:34:12.586+00:00Emma, you say: "I might intend to write a pie...Emma, you say: "I might intend to write a piece that is brilliantly original and insightful, but it might turn out to be cliched and myopic." <br /><br />Spot on. Thank you. And that is why this debate is so important - so that oiks like me who do find themselves on thin ice may seek safer ground, by knowing the pitfalls. Its all a learning curve.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-40123229683865138882010-03-16T09:29:26.396+00:002010-03-16T09:29:26.396+00:00"To imply that those who value and want to ex..."To imply that those who value and want to examine what feels truthful 'just don't get fiction' or will end up wallowing in the mundane is, while we're on the subject, patronising." and who exactly has implied this, Anon? Shame you always seek turn up sooner or later to undermine really good discussions and try to turn them into something different.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-79437121865556651262010-03-15T23:11:56.468+00:002010-03-15T23:11:56.468+00:00I’m puzzled by the various mentions of censorship ...I’m puzzled by the various mentions of censorship in this discussion. No-one is suggesting censorship – not even self-censorship. We should all write the stories we feel compelled to write. But many of those stories will be flawed as works of literature, and some of those possible flaws relate to their fidelity. <br /><br />There are particular challenges when we write about characters whose experience and worldview are radically different from our own. When writers pull this off, their work will rightly be applauded. When they don’t, it will be criticised. As it should be.<br /><br />Vanessa, I don’t think the question is about ‘offence’ and I don’t think it is about the author’s intent. It is about the literary value of what they have written. I might intend to write a piece that is brilliantly original and insightful, but it might turn out to be cliched and myopic. <br /><br />I liked Sara’s question about why we write about other cultures. What do they represent for us? Why do I, for example, feel drawn to write stories set in Eastern Europe? Why does a friend of mine, a NZer, write so many stories set in Japan? I think we should ask ourselves these questions. Write the stories AND ask the questions. <br /><br />I was thinking about that American TV show Survivor, in which a bunch of Americans are cast away in some exotic location. Doesn’t really matter where – as long as we can get some shots of ‘the natives’ in some kind of colourful garb, and get footage of some of their ‘traditional customs’ (preferably some form of music-making/dancing). Constestants invent an ethnic sounding name for their ‘tribe’, and eat a few disgusting local foods (preferably grubs or something raw or rotten) while fantasising about cheese burgers. In the final episode, the remaining contestants will each be filmed sitting on a rock at the top of a cliff or walking along a solitary beach, reflecting on What is Important in Life. The indigenous cultures of these countries are just fodder for the Survivor machine – it chews them up and sh*ts them out, to nourish the spirituality of the telegenic (hopefully each with some engaging back story) contestants and their couch-bound viewing audience. I shiver at the thought of doing something similar with my writing.<br /><br />Cultural difference is a mine field. I’m glad there are writers who aren’t afraid to walk into it, but it does surprise me when they don’t perceive the risks.Emmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-59678779639625335482010-03-15T21:55:01.950+00:002010-03-15T21:55:01.950+00:00Mention of Janice Galloway, reminds me that one of...Mention of Janice Galloway, reminds me that one of her books is called This is Not About Me. Perhaps some commenters should have kept these words in mind when reading Sara's post.<br /><br />Avoiding cack-handed tourism (which of course no one here would do, because we're all so clever we'd know, right?) is not just about not offending the people portrayed, it's about many things including personal/professional integrity and creating something of real value. <br /><br />Obviously people read/write for different reasons. To imply that those who value and want to examine what feels truthful 'just don't get fiction' or will end up wallowing in the mundane is, while we're on the subject, patronising.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-21168471050147845022010-03-15T11:18:54.362+00:002010-03-15T11:18:54.362+00:00Ok - I get all that. But the word'patronising...Ok - I get all that. But the word'patronising' to me, means 'belittling', and 'treating the other as inferior'. I dont get how a white writer creating a black character (for example) is being patronising, any more than a black writer creating a white character is being patronising. <br /><br />Belittlement is something felt by the recipient - surely. Like offence.<br /><br />Unless the piece (rare, but it does happen, sadly,) is deliberately belittling and intended as such...but thats another issue, and such blatherings are not worth commenting on.<br /><br />However. If you are saying here that it is 'more' important to try to get your facts right when writing about other cultures, the answer has to be 'of course. Where it matters for the fiction!'Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-81989356982921730862010-03-15T09:26:16.402+00:002010-03-15T09:26:16.402+00:00Just to say, again, that this post is about me dis...Just to say, again, that this post is about me discovering how I tick, not about censoring anyone else.<br /><br />Louise - agreed. Brilliant writing can come from any setting, "domestic" does not always mean boring and dull any more than an "exotic" setting means interesting and good.<br /><br />Vanessa - You saying that you don't decide where to place a character or write about them is interesting. I understand how stories can unfold seemingly magically. They still come from you though, from your subconscious or imagination or wherever.<br /><br />My imagination creates many situations and characters too, but whilst I am interested enough in reading fiction from other cultures, theirs are not the stories that come from my mind.<br /><br />You say "I actually don't see how visiting a country, in the way most of us might - a quick stay in a hotel, a few trips, a few museums, some meals out in a major city - would really give me any more insight than reading over years, watching news over years, listening to debates, reading fiction set in that place as well as fact, and just being on the planet for a few decades with my eyes ears and mind open..) " and I agree. <br /><br />However, I feel as if I can't be plainer than when I said -<br />"I think that cultural sensitivity is important. I think that one can't ignore history. I think that sometimes well meaning people accidentally patronise. <br /><br />I don't read fiction for its factual accuracy. That's silly. However, I can see how me being factually inaccurate about cheese-making in a story is potentially less offensive than me being inaccurate about an African character. As far as I am aware there is not a long history of prejudice against cheese-makers."<br /><br />I don't see what's difficult to understand here. <br /><br />I think it's reductive when you say "But this point about maybe offending someone. I would worry about having that demon on my shoulder, personally - it would restrict my writing terribly. In a way, everything we write might just offend someone - for example, your 'rape scene' might be terribly upsetting to a reader, who finds it nothing like their own rape. Or my portrayal of a simple minded bloke - that might offend someone who has relatives with those issues. Because the person I know extremely well with those issues is not sufficiently like theirs."<br /><br />I don't worry about offending everyone, I don't write with a politically correct voice in my ear insisting on censoring words that I wish to write. I write naturally, in my way, my stories. I am true to myself.<br /><br />If, for instance, I ever write a rape scene I won't worry about offending someone who has been raped because each act of violence against a person is unique. Rape isn't a culture. Neither is "simple minded bloke."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00597852661913928616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-7525732287024219472010-03-14T23:02:47.977+00:002010-03-14T23:02:47.977+00:00Katherine Mansfield was a writer who from time to ...Katherine Mansfield was a writer who from time to time was accused of writing mundane fiction where nothing happened, but I think it's brilliant when you can pull off creating emotional drama in domestic settings ... (And the way Ali Smith does it is just fantastic, spinning off in her characters minds making it all sound new.)<br /><br />Very interesting discussion, has kept me awake long after my so-called bedtime.Louise Halvardssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17038924529261834908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-41165360012406389032010-03-14T18:30:10.228+00:002010-03-14T18:30:10.228+00:00I think thanks are due to Sara for opening up this...I think thanks are due to Sara for opening up this debate - it is great. And like all debates, I wonder if it is in the end a) pointing up differences in our ways of creating, and b) what we actually look for in fiction, as readers?<br /><br />S - you asked this question: "What would be your motivation for creating a character who lived in a country that you have not been to?" <br /><br />and said: "I won't set (a) story in a place where through my ignorance I could cause offence." <br /><br />There's a simple answer from this writer to the question: I don't actively decide to 'place' my characters anywhere. There is no 'overt motivation' if you like, the writing just comes. <br /><br />Example, the piece I read the other night, in your company. I did not 'decide' to write about that character. I just did. And whether I have been to the country where it is set, or not, physically, is irrelevant. <br /><br />(I actually don't see how visiting a country, in the way most of us might - a quick stay in a hotel, a few trips, a few museums, some meals out in a major city - would really give me any more insight than reading over years, watching news over years, listening to debates, reading fiction set in that place as well as fact, and just being on the planet for a few decades with my eyes ears and mind open...) <br /><br />But far more important, I think, is the integrity of our own interests as writers, our preoccupations, the things we communicate - as you say - exploring something of the human condition.<br /><br />And, to some extent, our interests as readers. I love the experience of being taken out of my own world when I read. I love the strange, the quirky, the surreal. As well as the emotionally engaging. I will accept a lot, believe a lot, if it is well crafted.<br /><br />I have no real interest in reading much about the life of someone 'like me'. And set in somewhere like my own kitchen. Why would I? Simplistically, I want to escape when I read!<br /><br />But this point about maybe offending someone. I would worry about having that demon on my shoulder, personally - it would restrict my writing terribly. In a way, everything we write might just offend someone - for example, your 'rape scene' might be terribly upsetting to a reader, who finds it nothing like their own rape. Or my portrayal of a simple minded bloke - that might offend someone who has relatives with those issues. Because the person I know extremely well with those issues is not sufficiently like theirs.<br /><br />I would never set out to offend, deliberately. But 'offence' is in the head of the person offended - it implies the person doing the offending has done so in a deliberate act - and that is just not so. Mistake, maybe. But no one ties the reader down and makes em read things they find offensive. They can put down the book. Change channels.<br /><br />I'd never write anything, as I said above, if I was worried about offending someone. 'Someone' may always find offence where none is intended.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09088301040602803489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-91310099446282332092010-03-14T10:45:41.291+00:002010-03-14T10:45:41.291+00:00Emma said:
Unlike Jenn, I think ethics and aesth...Emma said: <br /><br />Unlike Jenn, I think ethics and aesthetics are indeed connected here. People object to stereotypes on ethical grounds for the same reason that I object to them on aesthetic grounds: they are not true. By which I mean, not true in the third, deep sense that you identified, Jenn – they do not do justice to “ the psychology of people, about character and narration and 'life'”<br /><br /><br />You know, I didn't think of it like that. I still think that for stereotypes in fiction to be harmdful in any way (rather than just irritating or annoying) the reader's got to take them out of the book and apply them to life and that's the readers' problem, not the writers - but the idea of things being true vs authentic when it comes to stereotypes is an interesting one. Thank you. I will have to chew this over some more xxJennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10347219783395836620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-84635048515855805632010-03-14T03:12:58.541+00:002010-03-14T03:12:58.541+00:00Bit late to the party, sorry Sara, but what the he...Bit late to the party, sorry Sara, but what the heck. I have to say I switched off when the discussion turned into a debate in need of numbering. <br /><br />Here's my five (ha - number) penneth. Fiction is fiction. I read it because I want to imagine myself somewhere that is not me. I write it to be other than me and yet satisfy all of me.<br /><br />That sounds like a load of guff. And yet it seems less so because it has emotional truth. That is the key to fiction: not facts.<br /><br />There are several threads getting crossed in this debate. Cultural misrepresentation. Fact. Fiction. Author biography.<br /><br />I do not have any problem with writers making stuff up or mixing fact with fiction - I do it. I do not have a problem when writers get things wrong - even making mistakes writing about other cultures because it brings about debate and decreases ignorance. <br /><br />As a writer who is learning her craft I started with what I felt confident and comfortable about and I am moving out of my comfort zone as my skills increase.<br /><br />I do not read fiction with a view to gaining an insight into the author. I do not look outside the text, other than making mental connections with other similar texts. The story is my world for the duration that I immerse myself in it. If I want to know about an author, as a person rather than getting to know their style, then I will blog them or read their autobiography. <br /><br />A story should not be censored.<br /><br />As for using my own experience in my writing I think that's fine - I do not think it makes my writing all about me. There is no one truth. Once I have experienced an event it becomes, in my opinion, fiction. Memory is not fact. Memory is unreliable and subject to change. So unless you are there and experiencing the self same events with me, and you happen to share the same genetic make up, then your truth and my truth are completely different.<br /><br />I am more concerned about biased news reports than when a fiction writer gets it wrong.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Really enjoyed this post, Sara. Thanks.Rachel Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10046917627054462214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-51936557488913300392010-03-14T00:36:33.476+00:002010-03-14T00:36:33.476+00:00Crikey. I've been at work all day and returned...Crikey. I've been at work all day and returned home to all these comments. Obviously this is a subject worth discussing. <br /><br />Imagination and fiction can combine to illuminate in the most surprising ways. It's disingenuous to suggest I am saying that the writer should be limited to a subject dictated by their own experience. I link to a few of my stories over on the right, none of which come directly from my life. There is a woman who works in a mortuary, an old lady who discovers pornographic pictures in her garden, a mum who experiences rage as aural disturbance, a girl who fucks a guy she picks up in a pub in an alley, a young boy who accuses his teacher of sexual harassment etc. None of these are me, none of those are situations I have been in. I made them up. Clever huh? I revel in my imagination, and enjoy reading other peoples stories. <br /><br />But.<br /><br />I think that cultural sensitivity is important. I think that one can't ignore history. I think that sometimes well meaning people accidentally patronise. <br /><br />I don't read fiction for its factual accuracy. That's silly. However, I can see how me being factually inaccurate about cheese-making in a story is potentially less offensive than me being inaccurate about an African character. As far as I am aware there is not a long history of prejudice against cheese-makers. <br /><br />I dont need to feel educated or informed by fiction, I like to lose myself in the fictive dream. <br /><br />A question. What would be your motivation for creating a character who lived in a country that you have not been to? <br /><br />Tania - you say " Sara, thank you for quoting from my review. I perhaps misused the word "exoticism" because I think that what Janice Galloway does is make the mundane and the domestic exotic - exotic and compelling enough for me to be utterly gripped. She looks at her surroundings with fresh eyes, and portrays them in ways only she could. But this is, to me, in no way different from, say, a great story set on another planet. <br /><br />Some writers, me included, need to use settings that are not our immediate vicinity in order to bring out our "truths", that's just the way we work. I cannot, simply cannot, set a story right here, under my nose, or have a character who seems even a little bit like me. I begin to cringe. My creativity dries up. And it also bores me because I like to meet new people and visit new places through my own writing."<br /><br />I don't think I misunderstood your use of the word exoticism here. And yes, really, of course a story set on another planet could grip in a similar way. <br /><br />You know, I don't think I have ever written a single character that I feel is like me. My writing isn't about satisfying some self satisfaction, it's about exploring what it is to be human. It's reaching out and communicating. I create fictional characters to act in fictional ways, and through them I endeavour to create engaging stories. I like to explore what could be, what may be, what could never be, even. But to be blunt, I won't set that story in a place where through my ignorance I could cause offence. <br /><br />My comment about writing the character of a child with special needs was made precisely because it felt too close to home and potentially more autobiographical than the rest of my writing. I wasn't suggesting anyone needed permission before imagining themselves a character with difficulties, but yeah, I would be offended by lazy stereotyping in such a story. (That's me, speaking on behalf of me.) <br /><br />I have had a number of emails about this blog post in which people have expressed their feelings strongly, but they have chosen not to post these comments on the blog as they don't want to publicly become part of this larger debate. It is clearly one of those chewy subjects.<br /><br />Thanks to all who have taken the time to share their thoughts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00597852661913928616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-9234571384639937562010-03-14T00:30:35.787+00:002010-03-14T00:30:35.787+00:00I have to disagree. Of course writing is not journ...I have to disagree. Of course writing is not journalism – we are free to create whatever worlds we want to. Minglings of fantasy/reality, anachronisms, cultural mash-ups, scientific impossibilities – any of these things might find a place in great fiction. But stereotyping is a different matter (unless done knowingly, and even then it’s going to be hard to handle). Stereotypes substitute the generic for the particular, the simplistic for the complex, the flat for the multi-layered. They are the enemies of fiction.<br /><br />Unlike Jenn, I think ethics and aesthetics are indeed connected here. People object to stereotypes on ethical grounds for the same reason that I object to them on aesthetic grounds: they are not true. By which I mean, not true in the third, deep sense that you identified, Jenn – they do not do justice to “ the psychology of people, about character and narration and 'life'”.Emmanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13140037.post-76943619040272165412010-03-13T18:39:31.106+00:002010-03-13T18:39:31.106+00:00This is a fascinating discussion, which seems to h...This is a fascinating discussion, which seems to have hijacked Sara's blog! You raise some interesting questions, Sara.<br /><br />Personally, as a former journalist turned fiction writer, research is not something I associate with writing fiction. I make things up. It is not my business to educate and inform, to please everyone or even anyone at all. I am a teller of stories. It is my business to entertain the few who like my style, my type of fiction. <br /><br />I was astonished when other people seemed to be surprised that the stories in my book are not about me. One of my stories is set in Ireland in 1957, one in the Middle Ages, one in Las Vegas, another in space. I have never been to any of these places or times. To tell me I can't write about them unless I do meticulous research seems to me a form of creative censorship. Why can't I? <br /><br />I am totally thrilled about reading a story set in Norway where everyone speaks Spanish - that would draw me in immediately, I would want to know why and I would certainly keep reading. So it's not "right", not "authentic" - who cares? It's even more compelling because I know that Norwegians in our world speak Norwegian. <br /><br />I think a great part of the issue here is that these days we know too much about the writer of a particular piece...If someone read my short story set in Ireland in 1957 and didn't know that I wrote it in 2007, would that make a difference? (By the way, I was told that apparently I got it pretty right - but that was accidental. That wasn't my aim). We know where a writer is from - and I am as guilty as the next person of reading a writer's bio, sometimes even before I read the story. I wish i didn't. <br /><br />Sara, thank you for quoting from my review. I perhaps misused the word "exoticism" because I think that what Janice Galloway does is make the mundane and the domestic exotic - exotic and compelling enough for me to be utterly gripped. She looks at her surroundings with fresh eyes, and portrays them in ways only she could. But this is, to me, in no way different from, say, a great story set on another planet. <br /><br />Some writers, me included, need to use settings that are not our immediate vicinity in order to bring out our "truths", that's just the way we work. I cannot, simply cannot, set a story right here, under my nose, or have a character who seems even a little bit like me. I begin to cringe. My creativity dries up. And it also bores me because I like to meet new people and visit new places through my own writing.<br /><br />Blaft, it seems as though I am one of those writers who would never be accepted by you for publication, which is a shame because I read around 50 stories every month by writers from across the globe and all I can say is: you are missing out on some fantastic writing - in all senses of the word! Kuzhali's writing is stunning, I applaud you for publishing her book. I love her stories, which are often magical and surreal, but have never once though about whether she got everything "right". There was no point in any of her stories where I wanted to stop reading, to even contemplate if this was based on fact. I find it quite amusing that you are the publisher of a writer of magical realist/surrealist stories who is insisting on fact checking! Hmm, irony.Tania Hershmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781460794034586895noreply@blogger.com